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and now a message from the inside of

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check

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 63 for the first of

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2010 another year of the skeptic zone

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and the year of Tam Australia in

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November more about that all through the

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year here's Richard Saunders here with

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you once again on today's episode we

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have a recording from last year's

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dragoncon without good friend and

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reporter Kylie Sturgis psychology and

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skepticism in the classroom a

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fascinating panel and after that we've

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got a couple of gems from the late 80s

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in the early 90s we have a talk from the

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1988 Australian skeptics convention

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about crystal power and pyramid power

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it's very interesting to hear what they

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thought way back then over 20 years ago

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about crystal power and pyramid power

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that's followed by a well discussion

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between Magna Palmer crystal healer and

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Professor Ian climber geologists

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recorded the best guess I can make it is

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about 1992 or something like that and

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they have a very frank discussion on the

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power of crystals the magic power of

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crystals so sit back have a nice cool

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glass of lemonade and enjoy this episode

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I'm Carly Sturgis and at dragoncon in

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2009 several panels which focused on the

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communication and teaching of skepticism

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were presented one of which I moderated

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it was called scepticism psychology and

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in the classroom it was designed to

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highlight the contributions of teachers

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from high school to university level

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including outreach efforts across 30

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years leading skeptics who took part

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included Australia's dr. Martin bridge

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stock whose book beyond belief was

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launched at the Australian skeptics

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National Convention in Brisbane at the

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time DJ Grothe was a program director at

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the Center for inquiry and podcast host

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for point of inquiry is now the

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president of the James Randi Educational

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Foundation finally there's also Barbra

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Drescher and Matt Lowery and myself all

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members of the critical thinking

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education group thank you very much

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Derek welcome to skeptical psychology

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and in the classroom originally we had

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as two separate panels while looking at

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services and have psychology and then

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looking at schism in a classroom and

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then we realized that the combined

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talents and experiences other people who

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are here with us today bring quite a lot

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of over those disciplines together not

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all of us high school teachers or

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primary school teachers education takes

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many different forms outreach is a very

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popular thing I know my skepticism is it

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and I'm certain I can see already that

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there's people from a variety of

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backgrounds maybe some might be from

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psychology somebody from education and

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I'm certain that there's a lot of

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parents out there and stakeholders come

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from many different places and if you

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want someone to stakeholders please

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introduce yourselves my name is Carly

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Sturgis I'm a research assistant at

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Curtin University in an education

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apartment I was a high school teacher /

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10 years and I'm currently doing my

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second Emmett like this was a huge and

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talented education my second focuses on

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how many beliefs and the educational

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measurement often I'm DJ Grothe with the

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Center for inquiry which is a science

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advocacy and educational organization at

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the State University of New York cfi

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runs the only kind of skepticism science

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education masters degree science in the

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public in the United States through the

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center State University we or cfi

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through its campus outreach program and

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its youth education kind of skepticism

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teenage summer camp thing and I think

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that's a trademarked description it's

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not

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we are really invested in spending our

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resources to advance the critical

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rationalists the skeptical point of view

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among college students high schoolers

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and teenagers not just to those of us

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who feel like we're a besieged minority

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we want to get together and talk about

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another reason white ghosts don't exist

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I think we're reaching out as television

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to kind of all of these various public

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especially college students with now

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about 200 campus groups on colleges

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across throughout North America even in

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Australia Europe England be sure so

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that's me hi my name's Mallory I am a

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pretty deep of the trenches I'm in high

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school and college level physics and

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astronomy instructor I teach in Northern

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Illinois and I've been doing more and

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more involved skeptical movement

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connecting with Kylie DJ and Barbara

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one of the things that I've been

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involved in recent years besides just

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generally trying to gel skepticism and

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education and working with people like

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these is work out grassroots skepticism

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if you are at the Darwins volkoff's p.m.

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yesterday you'll know that one of the

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things that I've done is in northern

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illinois i started a grassroots because

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he followed scott do a little skeptical

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organization called Darwin's Bulldog

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which challenges creationists remaining

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them to come into our area and switch

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the nonsense and we also have paid for

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good science education so my approach

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more localized anything however if

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you're interested in reading a of my

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musings on these matters with myself

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shameless blood my blog skeptically

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teacher just Google skeptical teacher

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and what's the tough net and that's me

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hi my name is Barbara dresser and I

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teach cognitive psychology 200

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undergraduate at CSU Northridge I also

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teach the core science courses like

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statistics and research methods the

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things that a lot of under graduates are

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surprised the end up having to take that

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is actually a science so I kind of have

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it you know unique challenging opening

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their eyes to whether or not I actually

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want this major and reteaching what

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cognitive psychology is because it isn't

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clinical or counseling it's about

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learning memory decision-making

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perception so one of the things that I

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become passionate about probably mostly

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as a result of teaching is finding out

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more about critical thinking which

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magnificent

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meal so I've actually kind of shifted my

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research interests more toward critical

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thinking what makes us better critical

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thinkers because intelligence is

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certainly not all of it and you get

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reminded this is it sweater is it it's a

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key component to that and so in the

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classroom I really try my best to shake

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them up and to show them that what they

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see of the world or what they think

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they're seeing in the world is not

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necessarily what the world is to start

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with and so we really need to look

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outside of ourselves and set aside our

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biases if we want to make optimal

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decisions and that's kind of how I

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approach it as a parent as well too just

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amazing boys that on one starting middle

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school sorry and that has also kind of

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sparked my interest in that okay people

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how early can we start this and and

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shouldn't be doing it all along instead

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of teaching these children you know they

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don't have no child left behind

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everything is part of the problem so I'm

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teaching you what to think teaching and

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telling them what to think we should be

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okay my name is Martin bring shock close

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enough nice answer later ok money are

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you here we write my name is Martin

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bridge doc I teach a course at Griffith

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University called skepticism science in

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the paranormal I have been an academic

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for 30-odd years I've been an active

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sketching for about 25 years and this is

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a full four credit course within the

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university all skepticism science on the

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paranormal accounts within a major and a

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minor in the School of Science and it is

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taken by a range of students from across

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the university I've been doing it now

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for seven years they keep throwing

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awards at me for for for the court it

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seems to go very well indeed the wraps

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are the students is like nothing else

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I've come across in any other course

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ever and it's generally counselor to

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success if anyone's interested up with

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your details and I think we all do quite

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a lot of things start with what are some

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of the things that we feel particularly

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passionate about

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really women in terms of getting a bit

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of critical thinking out there and oh

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he's a better question it's critical

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thinking and skepticism the same thing

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their continuous for they're not

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identical you could be a critical

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thinking literary critic more you know

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art history or and skepticism as you'll

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remember the debates couple panels

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sessions couple days ago I like

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imagining that skepticism it's an

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organized movement the limits itself

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contra maybe what Michael Shermer or

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call Kurtz of Archaea recently limits

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itself to things that the skeptic

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movement has traditionally focused on so

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ghosts and UFOs it says it because if

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you broaden the field so widely that it

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includes every area of human endeavor

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then the skeptical movement is should i

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say merely a critical thinking movement

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and how do you distinguish that from all

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the others chinese advocacy

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organizations and kind of public

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interest organizations out there I I so

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in that respect I think their continuous

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but they're not identity I think one has

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essence yeah i agree with DJ but I

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essentially regards skepticism as the

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critical thinking applied to paranormal

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topics so my course is focused on the

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paranormal I talked about the way the

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skeptics please get rid of principles

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then I brought the afternoon to have a

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go at astrology and the amityville

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horror and creation science that the

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other things found wrong of course to

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non-parent

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planes which are controversial the two I

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focus on a particular are the theory

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that the Apollo moon missions were a

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hoax you can look or what is the

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evidence that there are hoaxes and also

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Holocaust denial and so I don't go any

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white than that but I hope engines mine

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the students right we completely

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spontaneously after the corset over and

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say after the course I feel more

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critical about things generally I'm less

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likely to take politicians for

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announcements at face value for example

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so although the courses focus pretty

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much there is this definite spillover

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that students are encouraged to take

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this way of thinking you to apply to

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other areas well

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I think I think to DJ and apartments

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concert spot on about the site kind of

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you skepticism The Skeptical who's gonna

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sort of the subset critical thinking you

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will because as a as a teacher I try to

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teach my students think critically all

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the time whether it's about physics

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astronomy and mathematics whatever I am

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often I don't actually have no more

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surprised when this happens but I'm

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still disappointed with happiness and I

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usually have a little baseball moment

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when I agree when I want to give an

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example for example and students come up

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a day or so later they say that was a

279
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really tough exam I wasn't expecting

280
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questions to be worded like that were

281
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you expecting

282
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for you is making simple that cut and

283
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paste type things first of what you've

284
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seen in Palmer problems before Willie

285
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out Pacific well I'm not looking for

286
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that I'm looking for you to think

287
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critically to go beyond what you know I

288
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don't want you to a cookie cutter and

289
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that's for a critical thinking you know

290
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when you put the students into a sort of

291
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a mentally a comfortable position where

292
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they have to they have to step up their

293
00:13:40,579 --> 00:13:35,919
game themselves so that that is critical

294
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thinking and I think it's wise not to

295
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confuse the two critical thinking and

296
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what are the challenges that we faced

297
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and this is specifically as educators or

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outreach people what are some funny is

299
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certainly in our personal weather here

300
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once music it's not occur all their eyes

301
00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:00,779
certainly no I personalized weak base

302
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things and sometimes it treatments and

303
00:14:08,749 --> 00:14:04,639
doesn't once what's the big ones you

304
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know I I actually what what Matt said

305
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:12,870
sparked something that I see all the

306
00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:18,300
time the students email me and asked me

307
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:22,740
what should I focus on and I know that

308
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there are faculty members out there who

309
00:14:28,430 --> 00:14:26,850
will simply say well everything is you

310
00:14:31,249 --> 00:14:28,440
know part of everything is going to be

311
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:31,259
tested we all we all really hate that

312
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student raises their hand says this is

313
00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:36,569
going to be on the test but the thing is

314
00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:38,550
I actually give them learning objectives

315
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:40,649
and many times they are worded it

316
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exactly as they are in the exam and they

317
00:14:51,439 --> 00:14:47,670
are still surprised so I think that

318
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:51,449
there is we become a little we become a

319
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:53,970
little complacent and I think students

320
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:56,880
have become a little they got used to

321
00:15:00,650 --> 00:14:58,410
the multiple choice tests they've got

322
00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:00,660
used to being told what the answer is

323
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:04,470
and try to memorize that not really

324
00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:06,690
putting it together themselves they want

325
00:15:11,059 --> 00:15:08,790
to know where in the book is this answer

326
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and at the level that I teach which was

327
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:14,819
upper division in college courses there

328
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:18,000
isn't and answer there isn't one answer

329
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:21,060
it is you've got this information you've

330
00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:22,380
got this information let's put them

331
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:23,649
together and rock

332
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and you told that they actually have to

333
00:15:31,319 --> 00:15:29,619
think about it and form some kind of

334
00:15:33,179 --> 00:15:31,329
conclusion that isn't just based on it

335
00:15:35,579 --> 00:15:33,189
you know their gut feeling or what they

336
00:15:38,780 --> 00:15:35,589
want to be true is probably the biggest

337
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:38,790
challenge ethics we don't want to do a

338
00:15:46,049 --> 00:15:44,079
lot of head of one thing okay yeah let

339
00:15:48,359 --> 00:15:46,059
me start from a personal opinion at nine

340
00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:48,369
one of the most disgusting characters

341
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,769
that you see on University campuses not

342
00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:52,959
quite the most disgusting a one of us

343
00:15:57,780 --> 00:15:55,689
disgusting is the academic who has

344
00:16:00,749 --> 00:15:57,790
strong opinions who pushes those

345
00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:00,759
opinions into all of the the text and

346
00:16:05,549 --> 00:16:02,889
the presentations in their course and

347
00:16:07,859 --> 00:16:05,559
gives you to understand that unless you

348
00:16:09,569 --> 00:16:07,869
regurgitate those opinions in the in the

349
00:16:11,009 --> 00:16:09,579
assessment your grades are going to

350
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,019
suffer badly now I think that's

351
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:13,600
detectable so what I do in my course is

352
00:16:17,369 --> 00:16:15,040
straight from the apps and I did this

353
00:16:19,169 --> 00:16:17,379
right from the start some ice is rising

354
00:16:20,549 --> 00:16:19,179
to interrupt me dead right I say that

355
00:16:22,319 --> 00:16:20,559
what people believe is their own

356
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:22,329
business and it is a young adults on

357
00:16:26,460 --> 00:16:23,920
teaching if there's one thing they hate

358
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:26,470
is being told what to believe so what I

359
00:16:31,139 --> 00:16:29,110
say is what you believe is your own

360
00:16:34,319 --> 00:16:31,149
business it will not affect the marks

361
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:34,329
but you must grasp these skeptical

362
00:16:38,309 --> 00:16:36,970
principles which I am going to pass or

363
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:38,319
some equipments there's several

364
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:40,209
different ways of doing it and you must

365
00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:42,730
know how to apply them then what

366
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:44,920
opinions you have at the end of the

367
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:46,610
course are completely your own

368
00:16:51,340 --> 00:16:49,130
as a result in this course run for seven

369
00:16:54,519 --> 00:16:51,350
years now the second year I ran the

370
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:54,529
course a fervent advocate of alternative

371
00:16:59,470 --> 00:16:57,010
medicine got top mark in the whole year

372
00:17:01,900 --> 00:16:59,480
fair enough he understood the principles

373
00:17:04,090 --> 00:17:01,910
he done very well last year I had even

374
00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:04,100
more of a shot of two thousand today the

375
00:17:09,010 --> 00:17:06,980
top student in the course gaming 95% was

376
00:17:13,090 --> 00:17:09,020
not only a devout Christian but I even

377
00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:13,100
think she was a creationist she has been

378
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:15,740
able to deploy these intellectual tools

379
00:17:20,289 --> 00:17:18,650
and use them in such a way but our

380
00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:20,299
actual performance in the classroom was

381
00:17:24,699 --> 00:17:22,640
absolutely brilliant now having said

382
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:24,709
that I also discovered as a slight trick

383
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:26,569
here because although i present these

384
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,850
and intellectual tools but they're not

385
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:30,799
like a chisel and i have a way to put

386
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:32,690
them away the box they're more like a

387
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:34,910
pair of glasses and once you put them on

388
00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:37,850
you see the world in a whole new way so

389
00:17:41,470 --> 00:17:40,100
normally students once they've seen the

390
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:41,480
world in this new way they're

391
00:17:46,419 --> 00:17:43,910
irrevocably defecting buyers but no I

392
00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,429
I'd say this and I mean it that I do it

393
00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:48,830
I don't care what the student police are

394
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:51,230
so that's one way which I get round of

395
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:53,150
this very real challenge me but that's

396
00:17:57,980 --> 00:17:54,330
the old man on campus

397
00:18:00,590 --> 00:17:57,990
you've got views over dr. I wanted to do

398
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:00,600
a long couple my comments here first of

399
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,110
all yeah the whole question about

400
00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:05,039
students simply want to be able to

401
00:18:10,970 --> 00:18:06,840
memorize facts under Georgia Tate so

402
00:18:12,259 --> 00:18:10,980
that's that that's problematic and you

403
00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:12,269
know I'm not really sure how you fight

404
00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:13,950
that I think part of the problem that is

405
00:18:17,539 --> 00:18:15,870
I think part of the onus is on us as

406
00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:17,549
educators the education community I

407
00:18:21,259 --> 00:18:19,980
think we got to a place where we up top

408
00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:21,269
that sort of thing that happened too

409
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,320
much I'm uncertainly the squeaky wheel

410
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,080
in my department about something like

411
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,480
that i think but constantly challenged

412
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:32,880
with my colleagues sure they say nasty

413
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:34,490
things when I my back to Brazil but

414
00:18:42,830 --> 00:18:41,370
Soviet up but as to Martin's point I I

415
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:42,840
need something very settlement because

416
00:18:49,460 --> 00:18:46,620
as a is a physics and astronomy guy when

417
00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:49,470
I teach I always that something to talk

418
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:52,790
about they named cosmic

419
00:19:01,340 --> 00:18:58,799
huge concepts and stuff and i preface it

420
00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:01,350
by I say writing again before we end

421
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:03,030
this i say what you notice that this is

422
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,650
a science classroom this is the theology

423
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:07,200
this isn't philosophy if that's what

424
00:19:11,539 --> 00:19:08,760
you're looking for you go to a different

425
00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:11,549
class down the hall and that's and I

426
00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:12,870
acknowledge that you know there may be

427
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:16,440
some people in the room who have a

428
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,290
certain religious or philosophical

429
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:20,460
worldview that he's going to inflict

430
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:22,110
with the science of length even if

431
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:25,650
that's you then I leave it up to you to

432
00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:28,530
reconcile the situation's hi I tell the

433
00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:29,790
flat out it doesn't matter if they're

434
00:19:33,890 --> 00:19:31,470
high school or college students i say i

435
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:33,900
will assume that you're mature enough to

436
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:38,130
figure this out for yourself and that's

437
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:40,440
it because I cleared it about here to

438
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:42,360
teach you what what to believe we're not

439
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,860
leaving their religion or God or

440
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:45,840
whatever i'm not your science in that

441
00:19:49,970 --> 00:19:47,940
stanza that's a really good approach i

442
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:49,980
think because what that does is it first

443
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:52,320
of all it faces that issue right up

444
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:54,690
front it's very straightforward it's

445
00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:57,450
very honest and it puts the onus on the

446
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:01,020
students it makes them think about it

447
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:03,900
and if they want the same they have to

448
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:06,240
articulate if you're going second and i

449
00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:07,679
think it's a very positive way to

450
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:10,200
approach it ironically one of the first

451
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,200
times i did this if that pendant five

452
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:16,080
minutes later student reveal themselves

453
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,850
the creationists not by saying how the

454
00:20:20,899 --> 00:20:19,440
creation us that they think they

455
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:20,909
the reveal themselves like most

456
00:20:25,999 --> 00:20:22,860
creations by the way they worded their

457
00:20:28,369 --> 00:20:26,009
questions and rustic Alaska it's

458
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:28,379
offensive because they were like they'd

459
00:20:32,029 --> 00:20:30,000
be turning this guy saying did you just

460
00:20:35,389 --> 00:20:32,039
hear what he said in the big thing and

461
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:35,399
he may have got it but everybody else in

462
00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:39,539
the room guys it was a wet for me I'd

463
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:41,940
like to contrast to what I do at the

464
00:20:48,169 --> 00:20:45,000
center for a car with what bona fide

465
00:20:50,269 --> 00:20:48,179
educators do in their classrooms so cfi

466
00:20:52,430 --> 00:20:50,279
and its people in an organization inside

467
00:20:55,759 --> 00:20:52,440
cop now it's the committee for skeptical

468
00:20:57,710 --> 00:20:55,769
inquirer inquiry and the council /

469
00:21:00,440 --> 00:20:57,720
secular humanism we are push groups

470
00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:00,450
we're advocacy organizations seeking to

471
00:21:07,580 --> 00:21:03,240
advance in my view or worldview among

472
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:07,590
various public so we're for lack of a

473
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:09,360
better term and I'm sure I would never

474
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:11,370
want to quote it or should ever say

475
00:21:16,249 --> 00:21:13,230
anything like this from a day is but

476
00:21:18,409 --> 00:21:16,259
we're about propagandizing you are

477
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:18,419
pushing a point of view we want to

478
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:20,970
engage cultural competitors and when

479
00:21:25,399 --> 00:21:22,769
Kylie asks what's the biggest challenge

480
00:21:28,399 --> 00:21:25,409
critics well guess what it's the

481
00:21:32,330 --> 00:21:28,409
cultural competition so there are well

482
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:32,340
organized forces that in my opinion are

483
00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:33,750
seeking to undermine the noble

484
00:21:37,249 --> 00:21:35,429
traditional University which is

485
00:21:39,049 --> 00:21:37,259
something we can all get behind its this

486
00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:39,059
critical thinking mission free

487
00:21:43,369 --> 00:21:41,100
unfettered critical inquiry into every

488
00:21:45,499 --> 00:21:43,379
area and are there are groups out there

489
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:45,509
that say no that's not the goal of the

490
00:21:49,129 --> 00:21:47,460
University you should go to the

491
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:49,139
University instead you become a better

492
00:21:53,090 --> 00:21:51,570
christian say and I don't want only pick

493
00:21:55,549 --> 00:21:53,100
on Christians because that's maybe one

494
00:21:58,279 --> 00:21:55,559
component the skepticism of religion at

495
00:22:01,490 --> 00:21:58,289
the Center for inquiry does but by way

496
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:01,500
of example at middle to the sea State

497
00:22:05,390 --> 00:22:03,480
University a couple years ago Center for

498
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:05,400
inquiry sponsored an event

499
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:08,190
do hundreds of events every year college

500
00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:11,250
campuses all over often sponsored by

501
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:14,280
college professors who bring us in or

502
00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:16,980
campus groups that work with us and this

503
00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:19,470
is there wasn't skepticism of UFOs or

504
00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:23,640
skepticism of Bigfoot it was about the

505
00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:25,740
historicity of Jesus do you think that

506
00:22:30,020 --> 00:22:28,140
that's also something one our component

507
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:30,030
organizations look into council /

508
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:35,730
secular humanism and it was a series of

509
00:22:43,460 --> 00:22:40,320
events / week this this this event is

510
00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:43,470
the program that we put on featuring

511
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:45,870
Garrett Ludeman a body scholar from

512
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:49,200
Germany and it created such a ruckus in

513
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:52,530
the local community that the evangelical

514
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:55,650
christian churches published op-eds and

515
00:23:00,140 --> 00:22:57,810
the off campus papers and stuff actually

516
00:23:01,610 --> 00:23:00,150
listening college professors who worked

517
00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:01,620
with us to bring that event and

518
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:03,990
encouraging their students not to take

519
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:06,680
classes from those teachers because they

520
00:23:11,870 --> 00:23:09,450
said if you do it will undermine your

521
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:11,880
face now we were really gratified that

522
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:15,690
the Editorial Board of the student

523
00:23:21,290 --> 00:23:20,130
newspaper at MTSU wrote an op at that we

524
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:21,300
could not have written better ourselves

525
00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:24,150
they say that these kids who wrote the

526
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:26,580
alphabet said look you should take at

527
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:29,520
least one course while at school that

528
00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:32,610
challenges your convictions and if you

529
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:35,070
don't you know if you're not taking a

530
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,810
course that makes you question what you

531
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:39,120
believe then you're not getting your

532
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:40,740
money's worth out of university so

533
00:23:46,610 --> 00:23:43,320
that's where we see the university I'm

534
00:23:49,250 --> 00:23:46,620
not as against now I understand why

535
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:49,260
educators what to avoid the appearance

536
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:51,250
of having a bias and you hear the

537
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:53,050
religious right off and say oh you guys

538
00:23:59,820 --> 00:23:54,510
are indoctrinating your indoctrination

539
00:24:02,160 --> 00:23:59,830
but it leads us let's indoctrinate in

540
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:02,170
questioning not and the answers you know

541
00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:04,480
we want everyone to say all questions

542
00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:06,550
should be on the table nothing should be

543
00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:08,800
off limits and that is an agenda that

544
00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:12,100
from my non educator perspective i think

545
00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:14,470
is something all educators should really

546
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:16,750
get behind rather than you know i have

547
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:18,370
met some educator friends who really

548
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:21,130
pussyfoot around the IDSA oh no i don't

549
00:24:24,990 --> 00:24:22,480
even want to tell you what my beliefs

550
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,000
are i just want to talk about the about

551
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:27,760
the history the idea or whatever i say

552
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:29,410
no come on we're human beings with

553
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:31,690
beliefs and I'm all about sharing it and

554
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:33,190
even trying to advance a point of view

555
00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:35,350
well they'll get me wrong video yet in

556
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:36,760
the context of the science classroom

557
00:24:43,470 --> 00:24:39,190
item I have absolutely no problem

558
00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:43,480
calling [\h__\h] I don't know that all

559
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:44,920
multiple cables I'm you can use that

560
00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:46,880
exact work usually do it later

561
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:51,920
here but yeah other perfect examples is

562
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:55,490
I have a lesson I do on a cell phone

563
00:24:59,260 --> 00:24:57,770
this area that's going to give us great

564
00:25:03,100 --> 00:24:59,270
answer

565
00:25:08,290 --> 00:25:03,110
you know and it's a perfect physics and

566
00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:08,300
I have great time doing it and I do it

567
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:09,980
in a humorous way I actually use a clip

568
00:25:16,780 --> 00:25:14,480
or two from sailors show and by the end

569
00:25:18,790 --> 00:25:16,790
the kids are like Hong wow that's that's

570
00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:18,800
pretty cool but you know the greatest

571
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:20,900
irony one time one of my students walked

572
00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:22,670
up me just last year after did this

573
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,750
instead so you don't mr. Lowry this is

574
00:25:31,210 --> 00:25:29,120
really awesome but I have a friend that

575
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:31,220
really needs to hear this because she

576
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:33,710
thinks that cell phones are going to

577
00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:35,510
give you cancer so she want me to cell

578
00:25:42,550 --> 00:25:37,700
phone but she goes to the tanning bed

579
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:42,560
three days a week yeah actually as you

580
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:44,570
were talking to EJ about telling

581
00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:45,530
students that they need to challenge

582
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:48,500
their their ideas and it occurred to me

583
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:51,110
that I can play in a family assistance

584
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:55,010
there I understand anything I kind of

585
00:25:58,360 --> 00:25:56,570
understand where they're going not

586
00:26:02,740 --> 00:25:58,370
really getting into their brains why

587
00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:02,750
because frankly I beyond that it's the

588
00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:05,240
falsification approach when you

589
00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:08,270
challenge your own ideas you are

590
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:11,270
attempting to falsify them and to two

591
00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:14,210
people who do that every day it's very

592
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:16,340
very difficult for me to understand why

593
00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:18,770
it in the case of the faith for example

594
00:26:26,590 --> 00:26:22,550
my challenging your faith is is so scary

595
00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:26,600
because it should make it stronger if

596
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:30,710
it's the right thing right but that is a

597
00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:32,250
scary idea

598
00:26:39,050 --> 00:26:35,670
it is our way of doing things so when

599
00:26:40,850 --> 00:26:39,060
we're not just asking them to accept

600
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:40,860
critical thinking and accepting of the

601
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:42,330
scientific approach we're actually

602
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:43,710
telling them how to do it in a

603
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:46,170
scientific way I am not sure what the

604
00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:49,080
interesting possibly the challenge just

605
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:50,760
to touch on to rub it on to the last

606
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:52,980
point the challenge I think I'm 15

607
00:26:58,460 --> 00:26:55,140
minute deal is am I doing this right am

608
00:27:02,150 --> 00:26:58,470
I getting in touch with people out there

609
00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:02,160
am i doing the right thing by scientists

610
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:03,630
because I'm not a scientist up in

611
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:09,150
education I you're excited I have no no

612
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:11,340
I graduated as an English teacher

613
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:20,640
english teacher yourself and me nobody

614
00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:23,820
else's wedding yeah I majored in English

615
00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:26,460
literature and philosophy I ended up

616
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:28,590
with a master's degree in gifted and

617
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:30,570
talented education because I was

618
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:32,910
interested in it and a lot of psychology

619
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:34,710
ended up in that and I could see how

620
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:36,690
many of the challenges that face

621
00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:38,340
students from both ends of the spectrum

622
00:27:45,050 --> 00:27:43,380
and and that eventually led me to study

623
00:27:46,940 --> 00:27:45,060
for my second master's degree when

624
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:46,950
someone who was a specialist of critical

625
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:49,260
thinking education she eventually left

626
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,810
the department and exiles link without a

627
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:54,480
supervisor and that ended up leading

628
00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:56,370
towards being more an educational

629
00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,260
measurement and so that's another thing

630
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:01,020
i guess that's worries me resources

631
00:28:06,050 --> 00:28:03,450
making sure that I'm touching base with

632
00:28:06,899 --> 00:28:06,060
people that are not setting a poor

633
00:28:10,169 --> 00:28:06,909
example

634
00:28:11,639 --> 00:28:10,179
all about that I'm able to network when

635
00:28:13,379 --> 00:28:11,649
teachers my other departments I was

636
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:13,389
continually running down to the science

637
00:28:17,129 --> 00:28:15,039
department whenever I did to do services

638
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:17,139
and projects I told everyone and

639
00:28:21,719 --> 00:28:19,450
everything that I was doing including

640
00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:21,729
the dent in your principal when you had

641
00:28:25,619 --> 00:28:24,190
very strong Christian beliefs and she

642
00:28:28,139 --> 00:28:25,629
was the first one being whipped around

643
00:28:29,999 --> 00:28:28,149
and said oh you could do that one we get

644
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:30,009
an expensive handbook should put it on

645
00:28:32,969 --> 00:28:31,450
one hand and not the other they go

646
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:32,979
around the playground see if anyone

647
00:28:38,909 --> 00:28:36,159
recognizes that this is most $200 what

648
00:28:40,649 --> 00:28:38,919
all of um yeah and this is nothing and

649
00:28:42,749 --> 00:28:40,659
yet there's no difference and that was

650
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:42,759
incredibly hardening and yet I still met

651
00:28:47,489 --> 00:28:45,279
opposition many places in many different

652
00:28:50,820 --> 00:28:47,499
fronts as well I guess it's a matter of

653
00:28:52,379 --> 00:28:50,830
hoping that hey it's going to work I'm

654
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:52,389
not going to step on anyone's toes so

655
00:28:57,539 --> 00:28:55,210
bad that I damage any possible benefit

656
00:28:59,580 --> 00:28:57,549
that I might bring that it actually it

657
00:29:02,190 --> 00:28:59,590
like Martin's course that he says has

658
00:29:05,219 --> 00:29:02,200
been looked over and conservative and

659
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:05,229
regarded as extremely education what am

660
00:29:10,499 --> 00:29:07,330
i what i'm doing is actually going to

661
00:29:12,019 --> 00:29:10,509
work or contributing someone you don't

662
00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:12,029
really hear your story about your

663
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:14,400
partner terrible but

664
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:20,290
ja ja da thought they were going up one

665
00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:22,390
of the neat things about the whole broad

666
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:23,980
idea of critical thinking is there's so

667
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:26,250
many things that fall under this that

668
00:29:33,409 --> 00:29:28,270
whether you're dealing with somebody who

669
00:29:36,620 --> 00:29:33,419
is say a park or fun most Christian or a

670
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:36,630
staunch atheist are somewhere in between

671
00:29:44,890 --> 00:29:39,720
meditation or whatever of you can

672
00:29:51,670 --> 00:29:44,900
usually find something that you can

673
00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:51,680
relate to them okay for example I have

674
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:55,500
in Los who are productive editor for

675
00:30:03,820 --> 00:29:59,360
basically creationists however I can get

676
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:03,830
get them to think critically about

677
00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:08,970
psychic links about UFOs and over the

678
00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:12,660
years I've seen how that that kind of

679
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:14,100
insistence I'm thinking critically about

680
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:16,910
one set of claims can sort of cream over

681
00:30:21,380 --> 00:30:19,860
into claims that maybe they hold a

682
00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:21,390
little more narrow you're not saying

683
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:22,740
they're going to turn into Jane Brandi

684
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:26,250
overnight but you know it's progress you

685
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:27,600
can actually see it happen but it's

686
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,820
usually a very usually a very long and

687
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:31,200
involved effort what you would think

688
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:33,570
like that but just to kind of throw that

689
00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:35,370
out there there's usually something that

690
00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:37,740
you can then you can find you can relate

691
00:30:43,820 --> 00:30:40,980
to specific people about in order to get

692
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:43,830
anything critical a broader sense just

693
00:30:48,650 --> 00:30:46,440
wanted to toss out there okay I've got

694
00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:48,660
one more question before we people like

695
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:50,580
to ask questions themselves from the

696
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:53,590
audience you stay home

697
00:30:59,610 --> 00:30:57,130
yes there are the lips few students and

698
00:31:02,549 --> 00:30:59,620
certainly for me especially since it

699
00:31:04,409 --> 00:31:02,559
started teaching statistics there's a

700
00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:04,419
huge course when I possible would really

701
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:05,950
like to burn me at the end of the

702
00:31:10,350 --> 00:31:08,650
semester effective and they launched

703
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,360
campaigns on you know screw my

704
00:31:16,019 --> 00:31:13,360
professors calm so worth but there are

705
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:16,029
those students that you know put you up

706
00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:18,760
on a pedestal not because we deserve it

707
00:31:23,010 --> 00:31:20,980
necessarily but because we were the

708
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:23,020
first ones to show them that there's

709
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,020
another way to think or that there are

710
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:28,240
people out in the world if we can the

711
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:30,940
same way that they do and that that's a

712
00:31:34,919 --> 00:31:33,130
big one some of these students already

713
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:34,929
have critical thinking skills they just

714
00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:36,490
had don't know how to apply them because

715
00:31:41,310 --> 00:31:38,529
they've never been faced with others

716
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,320
that think that way obvious is

717
00:31:46,049 --> 00:31:43,840
definitely hope the impact of this

718
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,059
course I wasn't aware when I began this

719
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:47,679
court who's going to have the kind of

720
00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:50,110
impact that he has and I call the impact

721
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:53,590
skeptical job and the first example I

722
00:31:56,940 --> 00:31:55,450
sort of it was about six weeks into the

723
00:31:58,919 --> 00:31:56,950
first two different because I was so

724
00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:58,929
concerned keeping the course going but I

725
00:32:02,490 --> 00:32:00,460
didn't really notice the impact it was

726
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:02,500
having on the students and there was a

727
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:04,360
student in that first class who was

728
00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:05,980
about my age she was a mature student

729
00:32:12,269 --> 00:32:09,520
and he gave his seminar about six weeks

730
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:12,279
into the course and his seminar was on

731
00:32:16,620 --> 00:32:14,710
the Roswell crash salsa controversy and

732
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:16,630
he analyzed what evidence there was who

733
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:18,399
came to the conclusion that there wasn't

734
00:32:22,919 --> 00:32:20,740
sufficient evidence to conclude that in

735
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:22,929
fact there had been a crashed UFO at

736
00:32:27,539 --> 00:32:25,330
Roswell ok fine very good pavement

737
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:27,549
you've got a very good mark top rain and

738
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:29,470
then after it's just we were sitting at

739
00:32:33,180 --> 00:32:31,450
the end of the seminar just chat

740
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:33,190
I said you don't realize what this

741
00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:35,200
course is doing to me I'm having to

742
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:38,440
rethink 40 years of belief i get this

743
00:32:42,509 --> 00:32:39,730
again and again in one of the evaluation

744
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:42,519
forms last year a student wrote in big

745
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:44,409
letters completely honest like Martin

746
00:32:51,419 --> 00:32:48,850
you destroyed my fantasy world and to do

747
00:32:53,009 --> 00:32:51,429
this but a lot of the students they once

748
00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:53,019
they get the idea of these schedule

749
00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:54,760
principles and how they work they do

750
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:56,529
find themselves looking at the world in

751
00:33:00,210 --> 00:32:58,210
a different way and they recognize the

752
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:00,220
sheer intellectual power of the

753
00:33:03,930 --> 00:33:01,630
skeptical approach they really do

754
00:33:07,220 --> 00:33:03,940
appreciate it not all of them but every

755
00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:07,230
year it does happen you bet this help

756
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:11,320
yeah I completely agree there there is

757
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:13,570
boy folks there is pocket loads of hope

758
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:17,980
out there and I say that for multiple

759
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:19,630
reasons one in my own my own personal

760
00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:21,370
experience oh there there was a time

761
00:33:25,649 --> 00:33:23,620
many years ago when I both as an

762
00:33:28,139 --> 00:33:25,659
educator and the scientist one I was

763
00:33:31,710 --> 00:33:28,149
beginning to get very very cynical about

764
00:33:34,019 --> 00:33:31,720
things um and then I realized that there

765
00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:34,029
was this burgeoning sort of a weakening

766
00:33:38,730 --> 00:33:35,500
of skepticism in critical thinking

767
00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:38,740
movement i got with days would and i

768
00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:41,740
started to take what I could and apply

769
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:44,620
these lessons in my classroom

770
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:48,370
and to see how some of the students with

771
00:33:55,950 --> 00:33:52,080
reactors was very history of wheezing

772
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,960
and to see how their parents and my

773
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,000
colleagues reacted to this sort of thing

774
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:01,120
too was also extremely fulfilling the

775
00:34:07,550 --> 00:34:04,750
scope promise but there's another reason

776
00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:07,560
why there's there's a cost of a pulse

777
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:12,520
look around right now okay um we're a

778
00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:16,090
dragon card we're at me we're school

779
00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:20,980
level we're adding science fiction and

780
00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:23,830
fantasy convention probably one of the

781
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:25,540
biggest ones in the United States every

782
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:29,590
year right and the skepticism and the

783
00:34:35,129 --> 00:34:32,290
real science and the real space tracks

784
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:35,139
over there are wildly popular we're

785
00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:36,639
drawing people in like drinks I think

786
00:34:39,930 --> 00:34:38,350
the only reason I looked or look how

787
00:34:43,110 --> 00:34:39,940
many people who are there in here this

788
00:34:46,590 --> 00:34:43,120
10 a.m. monday morning last day of akkad

789
00:34:50,870 --> 00:34:46,600
everybody's hung over right and you're

790
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:50,880
here you bet the trees know

791
00:34:56,130 --> 00:34:54,220
kind of Li the question you asked me is

792
00:34:58,650 --> 00:34:56,140
really about the future of skepticism

793
00:35:00,360 --> 00:34:58,660
you look at not only these indications

794
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:00,370
that there's a bright future but

795
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:03,430
technology is opening doors I'm very

796
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:05,050
excited about what Martin sorry about

797
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:07,420
the corrected the syllabus that you have

798
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:11,440
at campus enquire org we have a

799
00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:14,710
collection of about eighty high school

800
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:17,380
and college students syllabi that are

801
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:20,640
teaching critical thinking and

802
00:35:25,890 --> 00:35:24,130
skepticism and if yours isn't up there

803
00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:25,900
we'd love to feature it because if that

804
00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:27,460
kind of thing then we get what we want

805
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:29,590
more professors doing this sort of stuff

806
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:31,540
lastly you know I just mentioned

807
00:35:36,810 --> 00:35:34,240
technology the Kudo emails we get the

808
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:36,820
group of people we get most of them from

809
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,790
our college students who didn't know

810
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:41,920
such a movement existed they don't

811
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:43,690
subscribe to magazines they don't go to

812
00:35:50,610 --> 00:35:48,610
conventions they say oh wow I felt like

813
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:50,620
I was the lone critical thinker but you

814
00:35:55,710 --> 00:35:53,500
know in this big sea of the credulous

815
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:55,720
and frankly a lot of time it has to do

816
00:36:00,510 --> 00:35:57,850
with free thinking versus kind of

817
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:00,520
religious extremism but CF eyes agendas

818
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,250
broader than that so we're reaching out

819
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:05,200
like you never have before I think

820
00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:08,050
there's a brighter future then there has

821
00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:10,680
been a glorious past in the in the

822
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,670
organized skeptical movement and there

823
00:36:18,810 --> 00:36:14,800
have been some good old days you know 20

824
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:18,820
years ago so I'm only optimistic just a

825
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,250
final point about technology all of us

826
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:22,720
have embraced technology to an

827
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:25,630
aspherical council skeptics own podcast

828
00:36:30,140 --> 00:36:27,810
and point of inquiry

829
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:30,150
the critical teaching young all site

830
00:36:36,740 --> 00:36:31,950
where you can access the blocks of

831
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:36,750
myself Barbara and Matt and Martin is a

832
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:38,550
group of the University and you can

833
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:41,040
certainly find leads to his course we

834
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:42,690
all available to talk to anyone and

835
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:50,250
that's what we're going to learn more

836
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:52,350
you can head to Griffith University for

837
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,390
dr. bridge stocks course which will soon

838
00:36:58,420 --> 00:36:56,400
be available as an external study unit

839
00:37:01,040 --> 00:36:58,430
his book is called beyond belief

840
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:01,050
scepticism science and the paranormal

841
00:37:04,670 --> 00:37:02,610
members of the critical thinking

842
00:37:06,980 --> 00:37:04,680
education group can be found at critical

843
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:06,990
teaching or with barber Drescher and

844
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:09,690
Matt Larry's blogs called icbs

845
00:37:16,580 --> 00:37:12,800
everywhere calm and skeptical teacher

846
00:37:19,850 --> 00:37:16,590
wordpress com DJ Grothe is at DJ Grothe

847
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:19,860
calm and at the jrf official site my

848
00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:36,410
crikey this is Richard Saunders from

849
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:39,390
down under former telly celebrity

850
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:44,130
current podcaster and future bushranger

851
00:37:50,930 --> 00:37:47,130
I'm coming all the way across the pond

852
00:37:54,890 --> 00:37:50,940
to visit you Yanks in California to tell

853
00:37:57,940 --> 00:37:54,900
you all about my favorite podcast skep

854
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:57,950
tide I'm also going to introduce you to

855
00:38:05,090 --> 00:38:01,920
fosters beer I'll Yammer on about all

856
00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:05,100
sorts of things and we might even have a

857
00:38:12,590 --> 00:38:08,340
yarn so I hope you all log in with your

858
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:12,600
ears flapping skeptics in the pub hosted

859
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:16,770
by skeptics in the OC Saturday second a

860
00:38:26,420 --> 00:38:22,830
January 2010 at 19 o'clock at 7pm for

861
00:38:30,260 --> 00:38:26,430
you Yabo's at Muldoon's irish pub in

862
00:38:40,180 --> 00:38:30,270
Newport Beach California join me for a

863
00:38:45,289 --> 00:38:43,490
and now we jump in our skeptic zone time

864
00:38:47,809 --> 00:38:45,299
machine back to nineteen eighty-eight to

865
00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:47,819
hear dr. David wheeler talking about

866
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:50,150
crystal power and pyramids and

867
00:38:56,260 --> 00:38:52,950
immediately after that we have Professor

868
00:39:01,579 --> 00:38:56,270
Ian climber geologist and magnet Palmer

869
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:01,589
crystal believer whatever talking about

870
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:04,290
the power of crystals I think you'll

871
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,609
a third speaker for this session is dr.

872
00:39:24,539 --> 00:39:19,839
david whele a physicist lecturer at the

873
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:24,549
sum George College of TAFE who will talk

874
00:39:38,549 --> 00:39:27,130
on crystals and pyramid power thank very

875
00:39:40,740 --> 00:39:38,559
much to begin with I should really point

876
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:40,750
out the three areas of God are really

877
00:39:46,049 --> 00:39:42,730
crystals crystal healing and pyramid

878
00:39:48,059 --> 00:39:46,059
power and they do share a common feature

879
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:48,069
in the common feature is that they all

880
00:39:53,609 --> 00:39:51,490
claim to use energy and to redirect it

881
00:39:56,250 --> 00:39:53,619
which is why as a physicist I'm

882
00:39:59,370 --> 00:39:56,260
interested in it physicists have a basic

883
00:40:02,039 --> 00:39:59,380
belief the basic belief from evidence is

884
00:40:05,730 --> 00:40:02,049
that the total energy in the universe is

885
00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:05,740
a constant now what sort of thing do we

886
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,270
mean by this energy and this is really

887
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:09,760
where part of the problem occurs we've

888
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:11,410
got a really simple definition but it

889
00:40:15,779 --> 00:40:13,750
sounds technical it says anything that

890
00:40:17,069 --> 00:40:15,789
can do work where works to find is Force

891
00:40:19,079 --> 00:40:17,079
Times distance and that sort of

892
00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:19,089
mathematical what it means in real terms

893
00:40:23,309 --> 00:40:21,640
and things like chemical energy which

894
00:40:26,010 --> 00:40:23,319
are all familiar with is cornflakes and

895
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:26,020
batteries and things like that visible

896
00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:29,920
energy such as light sound he motions

897
00:40:34,289 --> 00:40:32,020
such as anything moving we'll have some

898
00:40:36,660 --> 00:40:34,299
energy eg try cackling no allele and

899
00:40:39,150 --> 00:40:36,670
you'll see what I mean potential energy

900
00:40:41,789 --> 00:40:39,160
such as gravitational or elastic energy

901
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:41,799
and the one that is fairly recent which

902
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:44,890
is nuclear energy but we've never really

903
00:40:51,210 --> 00:40:47,849
come across pyramid or crystal energy

904
00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:51,220
ever that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

905
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:52,990
and I think it's important to realize

906
00:40:57,900 --> 00:40:55,510
that that it could exist I mean

907
00:41:00,569 --> 00:40:57,910
relativity for example didn't exist pre

908
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:00,579
1900 and then suddenly it does and we

909
00:41:04,529 --> 00:41:02,410
now have the extra energy the nuclear

910
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:04,539
energy but the big thing is and this is

911
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:06,670
what makes the difference extraordinary

912
00:41:11,069 --> 00:41:08,910
claims need extraordinary evidence

913
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:11,079
relativity was an extraordinary claim

914
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:13,690
and it was achieved with some

915
00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:16,660
extraordinary evidence so really what

916
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:17,980
we've got to do now is go a bit further

917
00:41:22,769 --> 00:41:20,770
and look at the crystal system and see

918
00:41:24,140 --> 00:41:22,779
whether there's anything there that is

919
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:24,150
good evidence

920
00:41:28,819 --> 00:41:26,490
and possibly even worth making into

921
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:28,829
extraordinary evidence I'm going to

922
00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:30,750
refer to a book this is the photo copy

923
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:33,240
of the book it's a book called natural

924
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:35,880
quartz healing crystals and it was sent

925
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:38,520
to skeptics by Simon sanburne who's

926
00:41:43,099 --> 00:41:40,049
apparently from Melbourne I haven't met

927
00:41:46,539 --> 00:41:43,109
simon but it's a top book it is a book

928
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:46,549
that the people who put out the crystals

929
00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:50,250
think describes what crystals do for

930
00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:52,680
example at the beginning of it right on

931
00:41:58,299 --> 00:41:54,380
the first page it says this little line

932
00:42:02,960 --> 00:41:58,309
quartz amplifies transforms stores

933
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:02,970
focuses and transfers energy okay let's

934
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,240
have a look at that quartz crystals are

935
00:42:11,269 --> 00:42:08,640
just silicon dioxide there nothing

936
00:42:16,549 --> 00:42:11,279
particularly stunning do they amplify

937
00:42:20,329 --> 00:42:16,559
know do they transform energy no do they

938
00:42:22,099 --> 00:42:20,339
store energy saw it off if you get any

939
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:22,109
material it does transform energy

940
00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:24,420
whether you can use it that depends do

941
00:42:29,019 --> 00:42:27,630
they focus energy no and do they heal no

942
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:29,029
and when I say no I'm saying that's what

943
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:30,930
traditional science says if the

944
00:42:35,329 --> 00:42:32,880
conventional science is doesn't mean

945
00:42:37,609 --> 00:42:35,339
that they don't but it means that if

946
00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:37,619
they do the evidence so far has been so

947
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:39,960
slight and so minimal that nobody's

948
00:42:43,370 --> 00:42:42,089
actually seen it so let's begin with the

949
00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:43,380
first you're only going to really deal

950
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:44,430
with the first two because they're the

951
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,910
ones the new ages get excited about

952
00:42:52,490 --> 00:42:49,680
amplification for instance do these

953
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:52,500
things amplify the short answer is no

954
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,240
and the confusion here is with crystal

955
00:42:58,730 --> 00:42:56,640
sets and transistors in fact even in

956
00:43:02,900 --> 00:42:58,740
this book they begin by pointing out

957
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:02,910
that silicon in a transistor amplifies

958
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:05,220
is a slight problem here silicon is not

959
00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:07,410
silicon dioxide but more about that

960
00:43:13,279 --> 00:43:10,920
mesec the difference between the two

961
00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:13,289
things between the silicon dioxide and

962
00:43:18,829 --> 00:43:15,390
the silicon is the nature of the

963
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,839
material silicon dioxide is this this is

964
00:43:22,099 --> 00:43:20,640
the poor quality chunk of quartz that

965
00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:22,109
you can have a look at later it's not

966
00:43:27,810 --> 00:43:24,329
crystal clear it's still a crystal and

967
00:43:31,470 --> 00:43:27,820
that's the way it often occurs

968
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:31,480
on the other hand silicon is a material

969
00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:33,250
it's an element it looks very much like

970
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:36,940
I guess the lead in HB pencils it's a

971
00:43:40,110 --> 00:43:38,350
similar sort of stuff to that it's

972
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:40,120
closely related to carb and rather than

973
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,690
related to silicon dioxide but it's the

974
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:45,040
sort of thing that we make our

975
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:47,770
transistors out of so the first point is

976
00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:49,690
that transistors are not made out of out

977
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:51,220
of silicon dioxide they're not made out

978
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:53,530
of quartz the second point is at crystal

979
00:43:57,660 --> 00:43:55,210
sets which is one of the big confusions

980
00:43:58,920 --> 00:43:57,670
do absorb energy there's no question

981
00:44:01,470 --> 00:43:58,930
about that anyone who's played with a

982
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:01,480
crystal set knows that but it's not the

983
00:44:05,340 --> 00:44:03,310
crystal that absorbs the energy it's the

984
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:05,350
aerial and this is a point that the new

985
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,380
ages seemed of mist crystal sets have

986
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:10,480
aerials which are in general very very

987
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:12,010
long so that a lot of energy can be

988
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:13,690
absorbed sort of like glass vibrating

989
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:16,480
when you make a loud sound you can make

990
00:44:21,090 --> 00:44:19,330
glass vibrate and that's an effect known

991
00:44:23,010 --> 00:44:21,100
as resonance it's a well-known effect

992
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:23,020
that's how we do now radios it's how we

993
00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:25,570
can distinguish to sm from two WS even

994
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:26,830
though they're very close together in

995
00:44:31,890 --> 00:44:29,410
frequency and all the crystal does is

996
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:31,900
rectify it sort of like a crude diode or

997
00:44:39,420 --> 00:44:34,930
a one-way valve the crystal doesn't

998
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:39,430
absorb on its own it just simply acts as

999
00:44:43,170 --> 00:44:41,770
is one way valve the energy in the

1000
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:43,180
crystal set comes from the radio station

1001
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:46,090
and the stuff that's actually used is in

1002
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:49,110
the crystal set as a stuff called Galena

1003
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,150
that's this one which is much less

1004
00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:54,160
impressive it's black and it's got

1005
00:44:59,580 --> 00:44:56,950
little bits all over it the little

1006
00:45:01,800 --> 00:44:59,590
crystals all over it simply used because

1007
00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:01,810
when you put a fine point up against

1008
00:45:05,790 --> 00:45:03,580
them you can find some areas which

1009
00:45:07,380 --> 00:45:05,800
behave as semiconductors you've got a

1010
00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:07,390
member when crystal sets come out we

1011
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,950
didn't have semiconductors and

1012
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:10,720
transistor radios like we've got now

1013
00:45:15,090 --> 00:45:12,670
largely because we didn't know about the

1014
00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:15,100
effects radio waves with energy from the

1015
00:45:18,540 --> 00:45:16,900
station oscillate because that's what

1016
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:18,550
they're all about hit the aerial and

1017
00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:20,650
cause the oscillations in the aerial and

1018
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:24,190
these in turn can give you the sound or

1019
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:25,240
whatever you're going to get out of it

1020
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:27,910
the absorbed energy is then transferred

1021
00:45:31,590 --> 00:45:29,530
to the speakers that's the headphone

1022
00:45:34,050 --> 00:45:31,600
after passing through the crystal which

1023
00:45:35,850 --> 00:45:34,060
acts as a filter the crystal doesn't add

1024
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:35,860
energy that's the key it doesn't add

1025
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:38,290
energy it just converts the signal by

1026
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:39,850
cutting off the ASEAN and

1027
00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:41,680
changing it to DC so your audio can be

1028
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:44,470
removed and it's really not the crystal

1029
00:45:48,270 --> 00:45:45,850
itself that does it it's a crystal

1030
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:48,280
junction it's the boundary between where

1031
00:45:51,540 --> 00:45:50,110
the crystal is in the little point that

1032
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:51,550
touched on to it that was what they are

1033
00:45:58,140 --> 00:45:55,780
all about and when we say then since it

1034
00:46:00,210 --> 00:45:58,150
doesn't actually absorb energy does the

1035
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:00,220
crystal itself does it transform it well

1036
00:46:06,270 --> 00:46:03,300
your answer to that is sometimes

1037
00:46:09,330 --> 00:46:06,280
sometimes a crystal can transform energy

1038
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:09,340
because when you add energy to anything

1039
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:11,350
it'll obviously transform I mean for

1040
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:12,760
instance you transform energy when you

1041
00:46:16,590 --> 00:46:14,170
eat your corn flakes because you're

1042
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:16,600
transform the chemical energy into sound

1043
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:18,610
energy heat energy motion energy and so

1044
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:20,560
on so in that sense I gets there a

1045
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:23,410
little bit right the crystal book is a

1046
00:46:28,170 --> 00:46:25,690
amazing mixture of silence fact science

1047
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:28,180
fiction and just plain confusion I took

1048
00:46:31,830 --> 00:46:29,980
out another little section of it which

1049
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:31,840
happens to also be on the front page and

1050
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:35,920
says is quartz transforms energy if

1051
00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:38,740
squeezed to generate electricity that's

1052
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:41,950
actually partially true as you'll see in

1053
00:46:46,350 --> 00:46:44,560
a couple of seconds you can do that but

1054
00:46:47,970 --> 00:46:46,360
not quite the way they think when an

1055
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:47,980
electrical current is sent through it it

1056
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:50,410
swells that's also true an alternating

1057
00:46:54,690 --> 00:46:52,480
current causes it alternatively swell

1058
00:46:57,090 --> 00:46:54,700
and shrink done fast enough this is

1059
00:46:58,620 --> 00:46:57,100
called oscillation that's interesting

1060
00:47:01,530 --> 00:46:58,630
done fast enough is of the order of

1061
00:47:02,970 --> 00:47:01,540
millions of times a second which leads

1062
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,980
to some interesting possibilities if

1063
00:47:06,810 --> 00:47:04,240
you're going to use crystals in the way

1064
00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:06,820
new ages do when cutting precise shapes

1065
00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:08,920
quartz vibrates at precise rates and

1066
00:47:12,990 --> 00:47:10,750
transforms electricity in two ways which

1067
00:47:15,150 --> 00:47:13,000
can be broadcast it's not entirely true

1068
00:47:16,530 --> 00:47:15,160
quartz changes solar energy into

1069
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,540
electricity and devices called

1070
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:18,960
photovoltaic cells that is rubbish

1071
00:47:23,130 --> 00:47:21,370
photovoltaic cells are not quartz

1072
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:23,140
crystals their special PN Junction

1073
00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:25,330
materials but what are they talking

1074
00:47:27,690 --> 00:47:26,680
about here what's a science of it

1075
00:47:28,830 --> 00:47:27,700
because really that's what you should

1076
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:28,840
know if you're going to talk to anyone

1077
00:47:32,070 --> 00:47:30,400
who's into crystals you need to know a

1078
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:32,080
little bit about what the real facts are

1079
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:34,450
the real facts are that they user stuff

1080
00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:36,310
is an effect which Peter mentioned

1081
00:47:40,530 --> 00:47:38,140
earlier called Pete sell electricity

1082
00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:40,540
which simply means press it and you get

1083
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:42,790
an electric current what you do is if

1084
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,170
you roll the crystal under a strong

1085
00:47:47,790 --> 00:47:46,480
enough electric field you can align the

1086
00:47:49,950 --> 00:47:47,800
dipoles and then you can press it

1087
00:47:51,930 --> 00:47:49,960
preferably very quickly and the result

1088
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:51,940
he should get a voltage you know the

1089
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:53,450
basic idea is you grab

1090
00:47:57,069 --> 00:47:55,730
the crystal and slam the end of it there

1091
00:47:58,930 --> 00:47:57,079
are public points about is the first

1092
00:48:01,470 --> 00:47:58,940
thing is rapid hitting is best you've

1093
00:48:04,569 --> 00:48:01,480
got to go clean very quickly you can't

1094
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:04,579
do this just casually hanging on to a

1095
00:48:08,620 --> 00:48:07,130
crystal you have to get it slam it

1096
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,630
really hard and you've got to have some

1097
00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:10,400
sort of circuit set up because one in

1098
00:48:12,819 --> 00:48:11,900
goes positive one and goes negative in

1099
00:48:14,829 --> 00:48:12,829
the only way you're going to feel

1100
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,839
anything is if you've got a circuit the

1101
00:48:18,550 --> 00:48:16,640
new ages are okay here because they can

1102
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:18,560
grab the crystal and they make the

1103
00:48:22,359 --> 00:48:21,050
circle all the way around the trouble is

1104
00:48:24,849 --> 00:48:22,369
that what you're doing is you're

1105
00:48:26,260 --> 00:48:24,859
basically setting up a very high voltage

1106
00:48:28,569 --> 00:48:26,270
in a very small current so you're not

1107
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:28,579
likely to feel too much unless you can

1108
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:30,530
do it incredibly quickly now some

1109
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:32,240
natural crystals for example silicon

1110
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:36,730
dioxide are ppl electric but the big

1111
00:48:42,430 --> 00:48:39,920
negative with that material with quartz

1112
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:42,440
the big negative is that it's pizza

1113
00:48:46,839 --> 00:48:44,470
electric but only very very little bit

1114
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:46,849
why is it used so much well the answer

1115
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:48,410
is it's not temperature-dependent like a

1116
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:50,089
lot of the other materials are you can

1117
00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:51,890
use natural racial salts they don't look

1118
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:53,720
as good but you can use them if you want

1119
00:48:56,620 --> 00:48:55,490
if you really want a big bugs from

1120
00:48:58,780 --> 00:48:56,630
crystals and you're really into it in a

1121
00:49:00,670 --> 00:48:58,790
big way what you should do is get either

1122
00:49:02,770 --> 00:49:00,680
lead zirconate or barium titanate no

1123
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:02,780
barium titanate was discovered in 1940

1124
00:49:06,490 --> 00:49:04,250
so it's not as if the new ages have to

1125
00:49:08,109 --> 00:49:06,500
wait till now to get it what you do is

1126
00:49:09,970 --> 00:49:08,119
you heat a mixture containing various

1127
00:49:12,250 --> 00:49:09,980
salts in an oven in electric field and

1128
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:12,260
you produce this ceramic problem with

1129
00:49:15,250 --> 00:49:13,730
ceramics is they're black these

1130
00:49:17,260 --> 00:49:15,260
particular mix they're black and their

1131
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,270
unlovely they're sort of like um carrots

1132
00:49:21,849 --> 00:49:19,760
the cause of transformers and the

1133
00:49:23,470 --> 00:49:21,859
trouble with that is that people don't

1134
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,480
really like to sort of walk around with

1135
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:26,240
this big black yucky looking thing they

1136
00:49:29,890 --> 00:49:28,490
like crystals that look really nice so

1137
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:29,900
that's why they're probably not used if

1138
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:31,490
you really end up in a big way and you

1139
00:49:35,170 --> 00:49:32,720
want to really big bugs you'd use a

1140
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:35,180
plastic not an ordinary everyday plastic

1141
00:49:38,530 --> 00:49:36,770
but you go to somewhere like Plessy and

1142
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,540
you'd have a chat with them and say can

1143
00:49:42,670 --> 00:49:40,160
we have your plastics that you use in

1144
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:42,680
the for example super microphones for

1145
00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:43,849
the submarines anyone who read the

1146
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,260
australian last week would notice

1147
00:49:49,569 --> 00:49:46,960
there's an article about how the

1148
00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:49,579
submarines cruise around detecting when

1149
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:51,470
when they say russian subs open their

1150
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:54,410
doors to remove say anything when they

1151
00:49:58,180 --> 00:49:56,839
want to throw rubbish out the american

1152
00:50:00,579 --> 00:49:58,190
subs can hear it because they try all

1153
00:50:03,069 --> 00:50:00,589
these giant microphones and they're made

1154
00:50:03,870 --> 00:50:03,079
of that special plastic these things

1155
00:50:05,789 --> 00:50:03,880
underhand

1156
00:50:07,499 --> 00:50:05,799
you can give you about 50,000 volts of

1157
00:50:10,140 --> 00:50:07,509
playing micro amps so you'd really get a

1158
00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:10,150
buzz out of that but the trouble is

1159
00:50:15,390 --> 00:50:13,420
you'd have to keep going like that now

1160
00:50:17,789 --> 00:50:15,400
you might like to think about this

1161
00:50:20,190 --> 00:50:17,799
imagine a New Ager who gets a crystal

1162
00:50:21,539 --> 00:50:20,200
grabs a crystal and normally what they

1163
00:50:24,509 --> 00:50:21,549
do they hold it because they love their

1164
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:24,519
crystal they don't get their crystals

1165
00:50:29,819 --> 00:50:27,490
and strangle them now imagine someone

1166
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:29,829
sitting in a train what would you think

1167
00:50:33,329 --> 00:50:31,569
I mean you know it wouldn't be the most

1168
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:33,339
calming relaxing thing and in any case

1169
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:34,960
it's not going to give you a big buzz if

1170
00:50:38,009 --> 00:50:36,250
you want you can squeeze some of these

1171
00:50:42,089 --> 00:50:38,019
later and you won't get too much if you

1172
00:50:43,410 --> 00:50:42,099
would like a buzz though this one now

1173
00:50:44,730 --> 00:50:43,420
you can't see the crystal in here

1174
00:50:48,269 --> 00:50:44,740
without pulling it apart this is a

1175
00:50:51,059 --> 00:50:48,279
commercial spark generator all you do is

1176
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:51,069
you hold that and press it down and if

1177
00:50:54,839 --> 00:50:52,930
that end is anywhere near something

1178
00:50:56,370 --> 00:50:54,849
that's earth then the voltage can

1179
00:50:59,069 --> 00:50:56,380
discharge and you'll get a spark about

1180
00:51:01,319 --> 00:50:59,079
25,000 volts if anybody wants to feel

1181
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:01,329
that later it's no problem you just sort

1182
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:02,319
of put your hand in the way and I'll

1183
00:51:07,740 --> 00:51:05,920
press the button and that's using the

1184
00:51:09,210 --> 00:51:07,750
piezoelectric effect but the key is and

1185
00:51:11,549 --> 00:51:09,220
I'll just do it once and show you what

1186
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:11,559
happens you better press it like that I

1187
00:51:15,660 --> 00:51:13,089
got that because the edge of this isn't

1188
00:51:18,180 --> 00:51:15,670
so well insulated so I don't like doing

1189
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:18,190
this heaps of times but what happens is

1190
00:51:23,009 --> 00:51:20,970
as you press that through the

1191
00:51:25,529 --> 00:51:23,019
arrangement site is designed to go to

1192
00:51:27,059 --> 00:51:25,539
pounce once and that's it so if you're

1193
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:27,069
going to get the effect you've really

1194
00:51:32,430 --> 00:51:29,890
got to go like that to get it properly

1195
00:51:34,499 --> 00:51:32,440
they don't tend to do that what's

1196
00:51:37,289 --> 00:51:34,509
important is at the time between the

1197
00:51:40,799 --> 00:51:37,299
bangs like that is really quick and then

1198
00:51:42,569 --> 00:51:40,809
you get the nice buds but it's sorta

1199
00:51:43,890 --> 00:51:42,579
like eating a jelly with imagine a jelly

1200
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:43,900
and upside down jelly and you hit it

1201
00:51:47,759 --> 00:51:45,490
with a spoon and the theme vibrates

1202
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:47,769
that's what's actually happening so when

1203
00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:49,210
the new ages tell you that these things

1204
00:51:53,220 --> 00:51:51,430
do it they do but under special

1205
00:51:54,930 --> 00:51:53,230
conditions watch them if they're

1206
00:51:56,249 --> 00:51:54,940
standing there going like this there's a

1207
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:56,259
vague chance they're probably getting

1208
00:51:59,730 --> 00:51:58,240
millivolts or something if they're

1209
00:52:02,339 --> 00:51:59,740
getting the sort of buzz that we get out

1210
00:52:04,799 --> 00:52:02,349
of this one you'd also know that too but

1211
00:52:08,309 --> 00:52:04,809
that have been commercial quantities so

1212
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:08,319
the basic clue is they if they do get

1213
00:52:12,730 --> 00:52:10,690
anything at all it's not observable to

1214
00:52:14,770 --> 00:52:12,740
modern science as we know it

1215
00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:14,780
so maybe they get something else maybe

1216
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:16,310
they're special people I get something

1217
00:52:20,650 --> 00:52:19,040
else will if so the only way we can

1218
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:20,660
really find out is to get them and sort

1219
00:52:24,430 --> 00:52:21,920
of study them while they're doing it

1220
00:52:26,410 --> 00:52:24,440
certainly the effects they claimed work

1221
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:26,420
and this is really my point on it they

1222
00:52:31,420 --> 00:52:28,250
fix they claim that is that it's like

1223
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:31,430
transistor radios that it's like using a

1224
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:34,160
crystal set those effects definitely are

1225
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:36,170
not true if they do get anything out of

1226
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:38,090
it the excuses they give the

1227
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:39,650
explanations i give and not right

1228
00:52:43,210 --> 00:52:41,450
because they don't go through those sort

1229
00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:43,220
of effects the books got heaps and heaps

1230
00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:45,260
of other false words like that including

1231
00:52:49,450 --> 00:52:47,030
the bit that I think's dangerous that's

1232
00:52:51,130 --> 00:52:49,460
who I'm Peter did earlier about holding

1233
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:51,140
the crystal and getting the energy out

1234
00:52:54,580 --> 00:52:52,400
of the air and you'll notice just the

1235
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:54,590
way he did that he had one hand up and

1236
00:52:57,850 --> 00:52:55,970
he's holding the credit was this hand up

1237
00:53:00,160 --> 00:52:57,860
with one hand up and he's holding the

1238
00:53:02,020 --> 00:53:00,170
hand over the part with the crystal to

1239
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,030
focus the energy in what does that look

1240
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:04,160
like it looks very much like an aerial

1241
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:06,410
running onto a crystal set yeah the

1242
00:53:10,359 --> 00:53:07,910
crystal represents a crystal set there's

1243
00:53:12,340 --> 00:53:10,369
the aerial as we just pointed out as I

1244
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:12,350
pointed out a little earlier the crystal

1245
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:14,570
set only works because you've got a

1246
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:16,310
really long aerial absorbing energy from

1247
00:53:21,310 --> 00:53:19,130
the radio or whatever else if people by

1248
00:53:23,530 --> 00:53:21,320
doing that absorbed energy and the

1249
00:53:26,109 --> 00:53:23,540
crystal focuses it then every time you

1250
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:26,119
do that you absorb energy anyway and if

1251
00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:27,770
you think about it kids in class every

1252
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:29,240
day must create a hell of a lot of

1253
00:53:33,970 --> 00:53:31,810
energy every time they put their hand up

1254
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:33,980
all right so if you get a kid of your

1255
00:53:36,580 --> 00:53:35,570
teaching you get a kid in a promise

1256
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:36,590
skillet and he said can I leave the room

1257
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:39,010
you say no and he does it again what and

1258
00:53:43,810 --> 00:53:41,690
that is heaps Nazis would have generated

1259
00:53:45,130 --> 00:53:43,820
heaps and heaps of it because it would

1260
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:45,140
have absorbed into them and presumably

1261
00:53:48,609 --> 00:53:46,910
then focus the energy somewhere wherever

1262
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,619
their other hand with think about things

1263
00:53:51,490 --> 00:53:50,000
like you know it would depend very

1264
00:53:52,930 --> 00:53:51,500
heavily on where this hand was if you

1265
00:53:54,340 --> 00:53:52,940
happen to have anything cristal in it

1266
00:53:55,420 --> 00:53:54,350
you could have a real problem they're

1267
00:53:57,490 --> 00:53:55,430
part of the argument of course is that

1268
00:53:59,560 --> 00:53:57,500
they focus it because of their shape but

1269
00:54:01,210 --> 00:53:59,570
you know again that's arguable what is

1270
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:01,220
the energy where'd it come from we don't

1271
00:54:04,090 --> 00:54:02,690
know in science and we'd love to know it

1272
00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:04,100
would be really nice I mean you know you

1273
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:06,140
could do wonderful things as for the

1274
00:54:09,550 --> 00:54:07,280
pyramid power I'm going to give that

1275
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:09,560
passing coverage because the evidence

1276
00:54:14,590 --> 00:54:11,810
here is even sloppier the claims are

1277
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:14,600
harder to unify because they go from

1278
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:16,190
everything from sharpening razor blades

1279
00:54:20,620 --> 00:54:18,290
to prevention of decay of organisms to

1280
00:54:21,790 --> 00:54:20,630
increasing the decay of organisms that's

1281
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:21,800
a bit of a problem you know when it

1282
00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:23,570
proved some things and deteriorates

1283
00:54:26,130 --> 00:54:24,520
others

1284
00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:26,140
I thought probably the easiest seemed to

1285
00:54:33,690 --> 00:54:27,940
show you with that was a little quote

1286
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:33,700
from skeptical Inquirer in The Skeptical

1287
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:36,970
Inquirer the the last edition came out

1288
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:39,270
there's a little article in it about

1289
00:54:44,820 --> 00:54:41,890
putting French wines to the pyramid test

1290
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:44,830
and apparently i just read quickly a

1291
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:46,060
couple of sections some small-scale

1292
00:54:49,950 --> 00:54:48,490
models of pyramids are supposed to

1293
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:49,960
generate form waves which although

1294
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:51,970
unknown to physicists can preserve meat

1295
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:53,530
sharp and I'll razor blades and even

1296
00:54:57,870 --> 00:54:56,170
cure cancer a big plexiglass model of

1297
00:55:00,810 --> 00:54:57,880
the Great Pyramid was set up by Pierre

1298
00:55:03,390 --> 00:55:00,820
ki d Carillo a well-known specialist in

1299
00:55:05,130 --> 00:55:03,400
pyramid ology seven bottles of wine less

1300
00:55:07,530 --> 00:55:05,140
than two years old or placed inside the

1301
00:55:08,970 --> 00:55:07,540
model and the idea was at the end of

1302
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:08,980
this particular fear that was going on

1303
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:10,450
they would demonstrate that these wines

1304
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:12,250
were actually better than the wines

1305
00:55:16,830 --> 00:55:14,650
which were put aside by as a test group

1306
00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:16,840
now what actually happened in this was

1307
00:55:20,580 --> 00:55:18,670
the test group of wines put aside was

1308
00:55:22,260 --> 00:55:20,590
stored in the office of the guy actually

1309
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:22,270
running the show so they weren't

1310
00:55:25,740 --> 00:55:23,530
refrigerated though just stored away

1311
00:55:28,550 --> 00:55:25,750
there at the end when they did the test

1312
00:55:32,910 --> 00:55:28,560
the pyramid whines come out in front and

1313
00:55:36,060 --> 00:55:32,920
but only just in front cover me with red

1314
00:55:38,580 --> 00:55:36,070
wine so they was weird to have any

1315
00:55:39,780 --> 00:55:38,590
meaningful significance and if it had it

1316
00:55:42,210 --> 00:55:39,790
would not have been favored of the

1317
00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:42,220
pyramid the red wines kept in the

1318
00:55:46,890 --> 00:55:44,920
pyramid were only slightly less than the

1319
00:55:49,290 --> 00:55:46,900
control lines such a difference would

1320
00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:49,300
basically obviously due to chance so how

1321
00:55:52,170 --> 00:55:50,500
did it happen that the result of the

1322
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,180
first experiment was favorable to the

1323
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:53,920
wine from the pyramid the answer is

1324
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:55,690
simple it was because of the bottles of

1325
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:58,210
champagne those coming from the pyramid

1326
00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:00,880
had a tolerable result a 2.4 average out

1327
00:56:06,510 --> 00:56:04,840
of 4 by testers the white sorry the to

1328
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:06,520
control bottles of champagne had a much

1329
00:56:11,550 --> 00:56:09,520
lower score of 1.7 such probability

1330
00:56:13,710 --> 00:56:11,560
being due to chance with about 1 in 9

1331
00:56:15,390 --> 00:56:13,720
million so what was the explanation the

1332
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:15,400
explanation could probably be found in

1333
00:56:18,810 --> 00:56:16,810
the differences of temperature and air

1334
00:56:21,060 --> 00:56:18,820
circulating between the pyramid and the

1335
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:21,070
president's cozy office it was not that

1336
00:56:24,660 --> 00:56:22,930
the pyramid champagne had improved but

1337
00:56:27,030 --> 00:56:24,670
rather the control champagne had got

1338
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,040
worse the scientific lesson of all this

1339
00:56:30,990 --> 00:56:28,960
is that one pyramid models have no

1340
00:56:32,460 --> 00:56:31,000
influence on any kind of wine and two

1341
00:56:35,140 --> 00:56:32,470
for those who may not know it champagne

1342
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:35,150
must be kept cool and served IT

1343
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:37,490
now what's significant about that is if

1344
00:56:43,390 --> 00:56:38,690
that was actually a pretty reasonable

1345
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:43,400
test I should finish by saying that it

1346
00:56:47,590 --> 00:56:45,650
seems to me then that crystals and

1347
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:47,600
apparently pyramids don't fit what we

1348
00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:49,490
already know about energy for those of

1349
00:56:52,540 --> 00:56:51,230
you who like to subscribe to these sort

1350
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:52,550
of things Peter showed me this one last

1351
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:54,290
night this is Nexus which costs two

1352
00:56:58,240 --> 00:56:56,450
dollars fifty and in this particular

1353
00:57:00,010 --> 00:56:58,250
issue there's lots of ads for things

1354
00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:00,020
like crystal dreaming your dream is a

1355
00:57:05,710 --> 00:57:02,510
crystals desire so you can buy these

1356
00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:05,720
crystals from a place at Clerval crystal

1357
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:07,310
light which says call for a magical

1358
00:57:10,510 --> 00:57:08,930
visit and they sort of gone with heaps

1359
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:10,520
of these but the one that I particularly

1360
00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:13,250
liked out of this is a place called the

1361
00:57:17,710 --> 00:57:15,950
quartz crystal awareness center now the

1362
00:57:20,350 --> 00:57:17,720
quartz crystal awareness center is

1363
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:20,360
moving to bellingham and they're opening

1364
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:23,090
in fact they've already opened the ad

1365
00:57:30,610 --> 00:57:28,130
says opening first of April 1988 either

1366
00:57:32,740 --> 00:57:30,620
that was pretty appropriate what we get

1367
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,750
from the new ages who are into these

1368
00:57:36,130 --> 00:57:34,160
things basically is a mixture of

1369
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:36,140
misunderstanding confusion from wishful

1370
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:38,810
thinking I'd sort of like to say to them

1371
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:40,160
as a physicist if they can demonstrate

1372
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:42,770
they all the crystals or their pyramids

1373
00:57:47,230 --> 00:57:45,440
can do what they say they can do nothing

1374
00:57:48,970 --> 00:57:47,240
more just what they say they can do and

1375
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:48,980
not asking for anything amazing just

1376
00:57:53,350 --> 00:57:51,170
show that the crystals can amplify or

1377
00:57:54,790 --> 00:57:53,360
create energy then conventional science

1378
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:54,800
will be very interested and we'd give

1379
00:57:59,140 --> 00:57:57,680
them a hearing until then the verdict is

1380
00:58:01,750 --> 00:57:59,150
the same as that pronounced on the other

1381
00:58:12,110 --> 00:58:01,760
pseudo-sciences and that is sounds nice

1382
00:58:17,490 --> 00:58:15,060
since time began man has been fascinated

1383
00:58:19,860 --> 00:58:17,500
with crystals and precious stones the

1384
00:58:21,870 --> 00:58:19,870
way in which these stones bend reflect

1385
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:21,880
and refract light into the colors of the

1386
00:58:26,460 --> 00:58:24,550
rainbow suggested to many that crystals

1387
00:58:28,580 --> 00:58:26,470
had an energy of their own that they

1388
00:58:30,660 --> 00:58:28,590
even had magical and mystical qualities

1389
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:30,670
healing powers were attributed to

1390
00:58:36,030 --> 00:58:33,130
certain crystals and stones such as

1391
00:58:38,610 --> 00:58:36,040
quartz amethyst and emerald was said to

1392
00:58:40,830 --> 00:58:38,620
heal specific complaints ten years ago

1393
00:58:42,780 --> 00:58:40,840
even five years ago he wouldn't have

1394
00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:42,790
heard anyone other than scientists or

1395
00:58:47,250 --> 00:58:44,560
gemologist talking excitedly about

1396
00:58:48,750 --> 00:58:47,260
crystals but today the ancient beliefs

1397
00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:48,760
in the power of crystals have been

1398
00:58:52,260 --> 00:58:50,590
revived an increasing number of

1399
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:52,270
Australians will produce a crystal from

1400
00:58:57,060 --> 00:58:54,310
their pocket or handbag and extol its

1401
00:59:00,000 --> 00:58:57,070
virtues dangers come help with sleep

1402
00:59:02,820 --> 00:59:00,010
improve sex life and aid personal

1403
00:59:04,910 --> 00:59:02,830
transformations they purify water and I

1404
00:59:07,950 --> 00:59:04,920
reputed as having special healing powers

1405
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:07,960
Magda Parma a crystal consultant has

1406
00:59:12,210 --> 00:59:09,730
spent the last nine years researching

1407
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:12,220
gemstones and has published her findings

1408
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:14,890
in the healing power of crystals in

1409
00:59:18,780 --> 00:59:16,780
plumber has had a lifelong interest in

1410
00:59:20,790 --> 00:59:18,790
minerals and their crystals and is a

1411
00:59:22,350 --> 00:59:20,800
professor of geology and head of the

1412
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:22,360
geology department at Newcastle

1413
00:59:26,940 --> 00:59:24,490
University he's also a member of

1414
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,950
Australian skeptics and recently slammed

1415
00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:29,440
what he calls an irresponsible new-age

1416
00:59:34,260 --> 00:59:32,470
belief well mag defers to you you've

1417
00:59:36,330 --> 00:59:34,270
written this book the healing power of

1418
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:36,340
crystals but before we talk about

1419
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:37,810
crystals and healing I'd like to talk

1420
00:59:41,370 --> 00:59:39,490
for about them in a wider context first

1421
00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:41,380
do you believe crystals have inherent

1422
00:59:48,090 --> 00:59:45,220
power yes I do even if it was only taken

1423
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:48,100
from its beauty do you believe crystals

1424
00:59:53,550 --> 00:59:50,890
vibrate are themselves or they do it's

1425
00:59:55,860 --> 00:59:53,560
been proven scientifically they actually

1426
00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:55,870
start well little hey I don't like this

1427
00:59:59,580 --> 00:59:57,850
word vibrate because it it conjures up

1428
01:00:01,830 --> 00:59:59,590
to the lame and a bummer mobile bomb

1429
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:01,840
that's not quite right really but a

1430
01:00:05,790 --> 01:00:03,490
crystals haven't inherent in your energy

1431
01:00:07,650 --> 01:00:05,800
yes and that energy does come out in the

1432
01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:07,660
form of little vibrations which start

1433
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:10,030
about room temperature and above I want

1434
01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:13,090
to ask you if crystals are akan dude to

1435
01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:15,340
a greater form of power yes they are

1436
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:17,710
what is that power the power is bringing

1437
01:00:21,330 --> 01:00:19,210
out your intuition more than anything

1438
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:21,340
else and it's also acting as an

1439
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:23,890
amplifying energy to all types of

1440
01:00:27,780 --> 01:00:24,970
medicinals

1441
01:00:29,849 --> 01:00:27,790
so believing crystals for you is part of

1442
01:00:32,550 --> 01:00:29,859
a greater belief system art of a much

1443
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:32,560
greater belief system it's a belief in

1444
01:00:38,460 --> 01:00:35,890
light the life force itself in teaching

1445
01:00:41,010 --> 01:00:38,470
people the beauty of our earth why look

1446
01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:41,020
out to space we didn't even see for a

1447
01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:42,910
start our innocent Hill man stepped off

1448
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:44,950
into space and look back and then he saw

1449
01:00:50,730 --> 01:00:47,470
this blue globe that was our life itself

1450
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:50,740
and that's what then again the crystal

1451
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:53,050
things started coming up this belief in

1452
01:00:56,730 --> 01:00:54,910
crystals right something is in our earth

1453
01:00:58,740 --> 01:00:56,740
is a crystals and they look back to

1454
01:01:00,900 --> 01:00:58,750
ancient times and that hit at the same

1455
01:01:03,180 --> 01:01:00,910
time as the drug market have become so

1456
01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:03,190
overblown that people were tired and

1457
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:04,630
lift if you believe the crystals have

1458
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:07,599
particular powers then do you then treat

1459
01:01:12,089 --> 01:01:09,609
crystals with a particular reverence oh

1460
01:01:14,430 --> 01:01:12,099
yes but I treat everything beautiful

1461
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:14,440
with reverence and many ribbons you

1462
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:16,470
attach to crystals the reverence of

1463
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:18,400
something that Christians would call

1464
01:01:25,020 --> 01:01:23,530
holy I won't I come into a religious

1465
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:25,030
thing at all i believe all religions

1466
01:01:29,700 --> 01:01:28,240
should be one and if religions must

1467
01:01:32,849 --> 01:01:29,710
exist then for heaven's sake let them

1468
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:32,859
start knitting but no it is not a cult

1469
01:01:37,500 --> 01:01:35,200
thing at all let's talk about crystals

1470
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:37,510
and healing yeah what do you believe a

1471
01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:40,450
crystal can do in the healing process we

1472
01:01:45,150 --> 01:01:42,460
never say the word healing actually we

1473
01:01:46,609 --> 01:01:45,160
say stabilizing the word hooked the

1474
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:46,619
healing power of crystals that's right

1475
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:49,210
that's because healing is referred to in

1476
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:51,660
many ways such as healing the earth is

1477
01:01:56,370 --> 01:01:54,160
planting a lot more trees in it they're

1478
01:01:58,410 --> 01:01:56,380
your healing the earth but you can heal

1479
01:02:01,079 --> 01:01:58,420
all sorts of things a doctor says they

1480
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:01,089
heal but in reality everything that you

1481
01:02:07,470 --> 01:02:03,970
own do in healing medically is

1482
01:02:08,609 --> 01:02:07,480
stabilizing walnut preventative

1483
01:02:10,260 --> 01:02:08,619
medicines able to do in the healing

1484
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:10,270
process what experiments do you know of

1485
01:02:15,150 --> 01:02:12,130
that prove that his spiritual crystals

1486
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:15,160
oh I um I had wonderful things I worked

1487
01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:16,810
with groups you see it was group control

1488
01:02:21,690 --> 01:02:18,940
I was working with in Britain they took

1489
01:02:24,780 --> 01:02:21,700
in America as well as Holland and

1490
01:02:26,790 --> 01:02:24,790
England the Scotland and the north of

1491
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:26,800
England had an MS multiple sclerosis

1492
01:02:30,750 --> 01:02:28,900
group working and I thought oh no don't

1493
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:30,760
give me these people it's too tragic and

1494
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:33,280
there's nothing we can do and that was

1495
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:35,650
my thought and of course I have learned

1496
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:37,450
which is very important when you start

1497
01:02:41,609 --> 01:02:38,799
dealing with crystals and Chris

1498
01:02:44,339 --> 01:02:41,619
for people they learn to bring this out

1499
01:02:47,009 --> 01:02:44,349
in you be positive about everything so I

1500
01:02:48,809 --> 01:02:47,019
thought fine montoya try this so I gave

1501
01:02:50,939 --> 01:02:48,819
them crystals it was group control

1502
01:02:52,949 --> 01:02:50,949
meaning the group's group of people were

1503
01:02:55,469 --> 01:02:52,959
not allowed to use anything other than

1504
01:02:57,419 --> 01:02:55,479
the crystals suggested we went through

1505
01:02:59,939 --> 01:02:57,429
quartz crystal it seemed to make them

1506
01:03:01,949 --> 01:02:59,949
have more pain more worried after many

1507
01:03:04,620 --> 01:03:01,959
we got them to lapis lazuli which is

1508
01:03:07,679 --> 01:03:04,630
this beautiful blue one here and we got

1509
01:03:09,959 --> 01:03:07,689
them to tourmaline now tourmaline is a

1510
01:03:11,999 --> 01:03:09,969
stone at all it's a crystal and it's

1511
01:03:16,229 --> 01:03:12,009
usually a precious crystal has many

1512
01:03:18,569 --> 01:03:16,239
colors it has a lot of energy and it's

1513
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:18,579
so you you feel personally satisfied the

1514
01:03:23,370 --> 01:03:20,650
cables there's a little a celeb process

1515
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:23,380
stabilize the MS people in you work your

1516
01:03:27,059 --> 01:03:24,910
geologist you work with crystals just

1517
01:03:28,499 --> 01:03:27,069
about every day of the week do you

1518
01:03:30,989 --> 01:03:28,509
believe the crystals have any special

1519
01:03:32,939 --> 01:03:30,999
powers well as a professor of geology

1520
01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:32,949
and having worked on minerals and

1521
01:03:38,009 --> 01:03:35,920
crystals for 25 years I view at the same

1522
01:03:42,689 --> 01:03:38,019
as I view many other New Age phenomena

1523
01:03:45,150 --> 01:03:42,699
is rather deluded people leading a mob

1524
01:03:48,059 --> 01:03:45,160
of ignorant people but while you value

1525
01:03:49,739 --> 01:03:48,069
crystals in technology today that's a

1526
01:03:52,349 --> 01:03:49,749
crystal of where we actually put energy

1527
01:03:53,999 --> 01:03:52,359
into a crystal and we get energy out the

1528
01:03:55,890 --> 01:03:54,009
very fact this transmission is occurring

1529
01:03:57,329 --> 01:03:55,900
is because of that but there are some

1530
01:03:59,449 --> 01:03:57,339
very interesting things in her book

1531
01:04:03,150 --> 01:03:59,459
about the energy of crystals one of the

1532
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:03,160
crystals I have here is a crystal of

1533
01:04:08,819 --> 01:04:06,130
courts and in the back of the book

1534
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:08,829
there's a appendix that tells us various

1535
01:04:15,390 --> 01:04:11,049
treatments that we can use minerals for

1536
01:04:17,519 --> 01:04:15,400
and we told that this crystal can be

1537
01:04:19,529 --> 01:04:17,529
used to treat all sorts of ailments and

1538
01:04:23,249 --> 01:04:19,539
the one that really fascinates me is

1539
01:04:25,859 --> 01:04:23,259
kennel cough in dogs you've written

1540
01:04:27,449 --> 01:04:25,869
about kennel cough and I'm the problem

1541
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:27,459
with the book is that we don't quite

1542
01:04:31,499 --> 01:04:29,650
know how to administer it and are the

1543
01:04:33,779 --> 01:04:31,509
only way i can think of administering

1544
01:04:36,179 --> 01:04:33,789
this crystal to a dog that's got kennel

1545
01:04:38,429 --> 01:04:36,189
cough is to wait until he coughs and

1546
01:04:41,239 --> 01:04:38,439
shove it down the dog's throat then

1547
01:04:45,890 --> 01:04:41,249
whoever cough again well this one here

1548
01:04:48,329 --> 01:04:45,900
this crystal here how this one here is

1549
01:04:50,819 --> 01:04:48,339
promoted as being a crystal which will

1550
01:04:52,030 --> 01:04:50,829
solve an ailment which has really been

1551
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:52,040
affecting man

1552
01:04:55,930 --> 01:04:54,650
and for a very long period of time the

1553
01:04:58,510 --> 01:04:55,940
problem is this crystal has very

1554
01:05:01,420 --> 01:04:58,520
recently been discovered it's a type of

1555
01:05:02,860 --> 01:05:01,430
garnet it you've Aarav art and it's

1556
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:02,870
meant to be used for the treatment of

1557
01:05:10,900 --> 01:05:07,130
flatulence now I've had these crystals

1558
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:10,910
for some 20 years and Madame it hasn't

1559
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:13,850
helped maybe you're throwing it down

1560
01:05:18,820 --> 01:05:15,710
your throat as you would the dog with

1561
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:18,830
kettle car Oh No you've said you read my

1562
01:05:22,210 --> 01:05:20,570
bookie and you well are there are some

1563
01:05:23,860 --> 01:05:22,220
other areas in the book which interested

1564
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,870
me I think there are some areas which

1565
01:05:27,820 --> 01:05:25,520
are bordering on being very

1566
01:05:31,330 --> 01:05:27,830
irresponsible there is one crystal like

1567
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:31,340
this you promote this on page 148 and

1568
01:05:37,090 --> 01:05:33,530
you say it should be used for the

1569
01:05:39,970 --> 01:05:37,100
treatment of a venomous bite now i think

1570
01:05:42,910 --> 01:05:39,980
that is irresponsible to claim that

1571
01:05:44,650 --> 01:05:42,920
crystals of native sulfur can be used to

1572
01:05:47,410 --> 01:05:44,660
treat a venomous bite if you have a

1573
01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:47,420
venomous but you don't hold this crystal

1574
01:05:52,510 --> 01:05:50,390
and hum or to knit or feel the aura or

1575
01:05:54,430 --> 01:05:52,520
your life is ebbing away you go to

1576
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:54,440
hospital so i think it's very

1577
01:06:01,600 --> 01:05:57,440
irresponsible to write that crystals can

1578
01:06:05,140 --> 01:06:01,610
be used to treat a venomous bite or in

1579
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:05,150
the case of this crystal here to treat

1580
01:06:10,780 --> 01:06:07,910
cholera cholera can be treated very

1581
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:10,790
easily CA not by Christopher I'd like to

1582
01:06:13,870 --> 01:06:11,810
actually take him up there because

1583
01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:13,880
actually you've done something very

1584
01:06:18,190 --> 01:06:16,310
silly what you've actually done ian is

1585
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:18,200
mentioned little parts of the book and

1586
01:06:21,340 --> 01:06:20,090
said you've read the whole thing if

1587
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:21,350
you'd have read the whole thing you'd

1588
01:06:26,110 --> 01:06:23,570
say that you'd actually be able to say

1589
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:26,120
that I have carefully written that all

1590
01:06:30,790 --> 01:06:28,400
alternative medicine including crystal

1591
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:30,800
healing should actually be used with an

1592
01:06:35,830 --> 01:06:32,720
orthodox medic as well they should all

1593
01:06:37,450 --> 01:06:35,840
be implied nigs on page 148 says that

1594
01:06:39,970 --> 01:06:37,460
they should be used for the treatment of

1595
01:06:41,860 --> 01:06:39,980
these diseases or afflictions what

1596
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:41,870
you've done for some reason rather is

1597
01:06:45,370 --> 01:06:43,970
just being in vindictive about something

1598
01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:45,380
that is quite silly and you're calling

1599
01:06:49,450 --> 01:06:46,670
it first of all let's go back to your

1600
01:06:53,140 --> 01:06:49,460
first mistake your first mistake was New

1601
01:06:56,530 --> 01:06:53,150
Age this is not new age and have I said

1602
01:06:59,020 --> 01:06:56,540
New Age at any stage no nobody has four

1603
01:07:01,120 --> 01:06:59,030
start crystal healing and the power of

1604
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:01,130
crystals and in fact all alternative

1605
01:07:05,170 --> 01:07:02,960
medicine was here way before the

1606
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:05,180
Orthodox medics brought in drugs

1607
01:07:12,220 --> 01:07:09,410
you actually consider that somebody with

1608
01:07:14,530 --> 01:07:12,230
intelligence that I'm I'm sure must have

1609
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:14,540
been easily as great as yours would

1610
01:07:19,030 --> 01:07:16,490
actually just something like this cleany

1611
01:07:22,750 --> 01:07:19,040
for instance as being a healing crystal

1612
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,760
madam you have all the number of

1613
01:07:26,109 --> 01:07:24,319
crystals there that have just been fan

1614
01:07:29,819 --> 01:07:26,119
there plenty is a very good one clean of

1615
01:07:31,870 --> 01:07:29,829
course I have records the focus man

1616
01:07:34,210 --> 01:07:31,880
emesis because whenever I don't know

1617
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:34,220
what plane eez but Angie's worth ask ian

1618
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:35,920
is saying some very silly things such as

1619
01:07:39,700 --> 01:07:38,210
crystal that's just listed you'll find

1620
01:07:41,470 --> 01:07:39,710
that there are crystals that are not

1621
01:07:43,630 --> 01:07:41,480
just listed two very anxious with one's

1622
01:07:45,370 --> 01:07:43,640
right I think it's just it's worth ask

1623
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:45,380
he's picking things out to try and make

1624
01:07:49,150 --> 01:07:47,210
a fool of the whole thing in looking at

1625
01:07:51,309 --> 01:07:49,160
looking at crystals is restores a

1626
01:07:53,290 --> 01:07:51,319
harmless pursued would you say that

1627
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:53,300
you're not doing any harm to anybody in

1628
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:57,290
in following a belief in crystals well

1629
01:08:02,260 --> 01:07:59,839
if you had somebody as I dare i say as

1630
01:08:04,299 --> 01:08:02,270
silly as Ian who would throw a crystal

1631
01:08:06,579 --> 01:08:04,309
done his dog's throat or who would crush

1632
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:06,589
it when my book actually says you do not

1633
01:08:11,380 --> 01:08:09,200
crush crystals it actually says that

1634
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:11,390
quite clearly because otherwise i

1635
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:12,770
wouldn't give is the point that cuz

1636
01:08:16,749 --> 01:08:14,720
you're here is not mention any book i'm

1637
01:08:19,689 --> 01:08:16,759
just saying that showing that anyone can

1638
01:08:21,789 --> 01:08:19,699
make up all let me have my seat and you

1639
01:08:23,530 --> 01:08:21,799
can search the cosmos for delusion and

1640
01:08:27,729 --> 01:08:23,540
you are selling this gobbledygook to

1641
01:08:29,410 --> 01:08:27,739
people take this into a wider context

1642
01:08:31,539 --> 01:08:29,420
yes i would like to finish what I was

1643
01:08:33,189 --> 01:08:31,549
just saying angela about you said if

1644
01:08:34,930 --> 01:08:33,199
they can harm certainly if you had

1645
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:34,940
somebody who did something as silly as

1646
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:36,770
the india but crystal people do you're

1647
01:08:39,999 --> 01:08:38,449
not have you carry on doing that no and

1648
01:08:42,010 --> 01:08:40,009
it says clearly in the book not to

1649
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:42,020
detection well let's take a wider

1650
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:44,330
context here and say that is there is

1651
01:08:48,579 --> 01:08:46,489
there any harm in looking at a crystal

1652
01:08:50,620 --> 01:08:48,589
for a healing process as opposed to say

1653
01:08:53,169 --> 01:08:50,630
drinking water from Lourdes I mean

1654
01:08:55,570 --> 01:08:53,179
Catholics very happily drink water from

1655
01:08:58,599 --> 01:08:55,580
Lourdes some Catholics would the problem

1656
01:09:00,550 --> 01:08:58,609
with true science is that people are

1657
01:09:03,130 --> 01:09:00,560
counting their ignorance crystals and

1658
01:09:04,930 --> 01:09:03,140
natural chemicals very simple we can

1659
01:09:08,050 --> 01:09:04,940
explain all their properties with

1660
01:09:11,950 --> 01:09:08,060
schoolboy physics and chemistry I've got

1661
01:09:14,079 --> 01:09:11,960
three crystals here you lay your hands

1662
01:09:16,539 --> 01:09:14,089
on them and tell me what you would use

1663
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:16,549
them for or what energies you feel or

1664
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:18,510
what powers you're getting from

1665
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:19,890
these are crystals you've written about

1666
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:22,440
in your book you clearly are aware of

1667
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:24,180
the sort of energies in pairs now you

1668
01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:25,530
tell me what is coming from those

1669
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:27,150
crystals you can touch them or fondle

1670
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:28,770
them or cheering them or whatever

1671
01:09:32,150 --> 01:09:30,480
gobbledygook you want to use but you

1672
01:09:33,830 --> 01:09:32,160
tell me I'm more check it in your book

1673
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:33,840
first of all I'd like to object to you

1674
01:09:38,270 --> 01:09:36,210
using the word gobbledygook just do the

1675
01:09:40,670 --> 01:09:38,280
experiment and secondly re with it work

1676
01:09:43,670 --> 01:09:40,680
will you please be quiet and let me

1677
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:43,680
speak you're quite were you quite silly

1678
01:09:48,440 --> 01:09:45,600
you're not even being original just do

1679
01:09:51,230 --> 01:09:48,450
this was unbelievable what you should

1680
01:09:53,540 --> 01:09:51,240
really be doing here is not saying that

1681
01:09:55,340 --> 01:09:53,550
and that you feel this you feel that

1682
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,350
because whatever happens you're going to

1683
01:09:58,700 --> 01:09:57,120
go in on and attack you're not ready to

1684
01:10:01,400 --> 01:09:58,710
even learn you're the type of man who

1685
01:10:03,710 --> 01:10:01,410
does mad and you are ashamed you are no

1686
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:03,720
prepared honey I hope to do this

1687
01:10:07,700 --> 01:10:06,120
experiment not with him here the way he

1688
01:10:09,290 --> 01:10:07,710
does done willing to bring a doctor on

1689
01:10:11,330 --> 01:10:09,300
I'm willing to bring people who've

1690
01:10:12,890 --> 01:10:11,340
actually recipients interest ashley is

1691
01:10:14,660 --> 01:10:12,900
there in the community is a huge amount

1692
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:14,670
that I haven't come onto the program to

1693
01:10:19,010 --> 01:10:16,320
simply be attacked and be called names

1694
01:10:21,710 --> 01:10:19,020
I've come onto the program hoping that

1695
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:21,720
we might be able to do something

1696
01:10:25,850 --> 01:10:24,000
somebody who wouldn't open their mind to

1697
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:25,860
anything do you think eans beyond him

1698
01:10:32,060 --> 01:10:29,850
and nobody is not even here he's beyond

1699
01:10:33,860 --> 01:10:32,070
help as long as he keeps attacking and

1700
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:33,870
won't actually open his mind to anything

1701
01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:35,970
and I think crystal could help him to do

1702
01:10:39,260 --> 01:10:37,230
it and I've brought one to help him

1703
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:39,270
madam I have been dealing with crystals

1704
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:41,730
for 25 years I understand their physics

1705
01:10:45,410 --> 01:10:43,770
very clearly I understand their

1706
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,420
chemistry very clearly you just do a

1707
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:47,520
simple little experiment to show that

1708
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:49,890
what you're saying actually works you

1709
01:10:56,180 --> 01:10:51,450
don't like that experiment i can give

1710
01:10:58,250 --> 01:10:56,190
you another one if you demonstrate how

1711
01:11:00,680 --> 01:10:58,260
every people believe that if people draw

1712
01:11:03,410 --> 01:11:00,690
some sort of comfort from crystals why

1713
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:03,420
why bus there were little bubbles except

1714
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:05,760
that it is being promoted as in this

1715
01:11:09,020 --> 01:11:07,050
book that they can be used for the

1716
01:11:10,340 --> 01:11:09,030
treatment of certain illnesses and the

1717
01:11:12,230 --> 01:11:10,350
second thing is that part of the

1718
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:12,240
wonderful crystal collecting areas in

1719
01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:13,770
this country are being absolutely

1720
01:11:19,450 --> 01:11:16,560
destroyed and I really like he's being

1721
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:19,460
denied it do you have do you have people

1722
01:11:25,220 --> 01:11:22,710
working solely from your book as a way

1723
01:11:27,050 --> 01:11:25,230
of trying to heal themselves and I send

1724
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:27,060
them to doctors as well I send them to

1725
01:11:30,380 --> 01:11:29,370
psychiatrists I have doctors coming to

1726
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:30,390
me

1727
01:11:37,190 --> 01:11:35,490
psychiatrists psychologists and we have

1728
01:11:40,460 --> 01:11:37,200
a great range of people and they don't

1729
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:40,470
just work from my book um we could I

1730
01:11:45,650 --> 01:11:42,600
could actually say yes well I worked I

1731
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:45,660
took gemology at London City Polly I can

1732
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:47,130
say this and I can say yes I've been

1733
01:11:50,330 --> 01:11:48,540
working with crystals for many many

1734
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,340
years to and I've been holding them from

1735
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:53,280
a child from tiny little child island so

1736
01:11:56,750 --> 01:11:54,960
hold an amethyst to get me through exams

1737
01:11:58,430 --> 01:11:56,760
but you still have enough to get any

1738
01:11:59,960 --> 01:11:58,440
energy from these three crystals which

1739
01:12:02,600 --> 01:11:59,970
you write about and until you can

1740
01:12:04,430 --> 01:12:02,610
demonstrate it works you are a sham I

1741
01:12:06,770 --> 01:12:04,440
think we'll have to leave it there thank

1742
01:12:24,490 --> 01:12:06,780
you both very much for coming Magda and

1743
01:12:29,810 --> 01:12:26,840
thank you for joining me for this

1744
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:29,820
episode of the skeptic zone another one

1745
01:12:34,130 --> 01:12:32,100
in our summer series as if you're in

1746
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:34,140
Australia or winter series if you're in

1747
01:12:39,650 --> 01:12:36,810
the United States coming up next week on

1748
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:39,660
the 8th of January the full show gets

1749
01:12:43,729 --> 01:12:41,400
back into gear on the fifteenth of

1750
01:12:46,820 --> 01:12:43,739
january and i will try to get a think

1751
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:46,830
tank going for that one until next week

1752
01:12:54,740 --> 01:12:49,170
anyway this is Richard Saunders signing

1753
01:12:58,760 --> 01:12:54,750
off you've been listening to the skeptic

1754
01:13:02,510 --> 01:12:58,770
zone visit our website at www skeptics